Iggy Pop

Now 58, the Godfather of Punk Rock is reunited with the Stooges and electrifying stages across the country. We catch up with Pop and find that he’s still explosive on subjects like drugs, CBGB, and how an old dog can teach new punks a few tricks.

Dog Days of Iggy Pop

Iggy Pop is enjoying his golden years — mostly by writhing around “like a cat on acid” with his bandmates, the Stooges.

I read a write-up of the Stooges’ recent performance at London’s Hammersmith Apollo, which the reviewer described as an “eerie walk through time.” Is that how you felt?

Iggy: It was just tremendously fulfilling. That was the first time we had been on a marquee as “the Stooges” since 1971, or something like that. That was a condition of my acceptance of the engagement. It had to be billed that way on the marquee, or I wasn’t going to do that show. We’ve been performing for the last couple of years using any combination of our name, but this was a really nice step for us.

What was the first thought that went through your mind when you looked up and saw THE STOOGES on the marquee?

Iggy: I drove by it about an hour and a half before we went on, and I thought, What a strong word it is. First of all, the double-O looks like boobs! And the word “Stooges” has the sound ooo in it. Ooo is the sound people make when they have sex or take drugs or get hit in the solar plexus. So I thought it was hot to see that double-O up on the bill again.

Are people starving for good old-fashioned rock ‘n’ roll? There doesn’t seem to be too much of that around these days.

Iggy: People are starving in general, especially when you get to …. [Pauses] Hell, I’ll say it — white music. [Laughs] Which just increasingly sucks!

You’re 58 years old. Where does your physical and emotional drive come from after all these years?

Iggy: It’s a mixture of the sacred and profane. On the sacred side, I’ve got just a tremendous, real urge to prove something about my band. I still get choked up talking about that. Even at this moment.

Why is that?

Iggy: [The Stooges] got to a certain point, and things kind of exploded. We didn’t get the recognition at the time for what we had accomplished. So I stuck it out for a long time trying to carry that torch. That gives me a powerful motivation to continue.

And on the profane level, what is it that motivates you?

Iggy: I was really worried before this tour that I was doing too well. I didn’t have any problems. I had no fucking motivation. Fuck! Life was too damn good. So I bought a really fucking expensive house, and now I have to pay for it! I’m nervous! I’m on edge again! Little irritations loom a little larger! So that helped.

The Ramones have been credited by most rock historians as the band that inspired punk rock. Would you disagree with that?

Iggy: Musicians are punks. There’s an old tradition that female entertainers are all prostitutes. This goes back to the Elizabethan times, probably even way before that. Like concubines in the emperors’ courts in Asia that had to entertain. On the other hand, male musicians are all punks. We [the Stooges] as people, before we even formed a band, were more excited about the punky aspects, and the extreme, irritating aspects of British rock and American greaser rock in the sixties than we were about listening to fucking Lesley Gore on the radio!

What bands influenced you?

Iggy: Bands like the Kinks, the Stones, the Who, the Pretty Things, Them, and maybe Hendrix. [Pauses] I’m trying to think if there was anybody good who was American at that time. The Doors. So I thought, Let’s take all of this one step further. It seemed like the most logical thing to do. But it was already there. We just took it an extra step.

In your opinion, who was the first punk rocker?

Iggy: In certain ways, James Brown! What a punk! What got us called punks by Lenny Kaye in Rolling Stone magazine was the fact that I sounded so damn adolescent. I sounded like I was 14, and I was already 21 at the time. James Brown was very punk, but he was an adult. You could tell he went to a lounge to drink with a suit on. He was interested in adult things. He was different. So compared to him, the English groups sounded punky, and compared to them, we really sounded like kids.

But the Stones and the Who weren’t smashing glass bottles on themselves and rubbing peanut butter on their wounds.

Iggy: No, they weren’t. They also weren’t coming out in ripped jeans. Nobody did that. The more ripped my pants got, I thought, the cooler it looked.

And the blood?

Iggy: I can’t remember where that started. That might have been more serendipity from the things I was doing. Some of the stuff I was doing was stuff a five-year-old will do to get attention.

Here’s a quote from you: “I don’t believe that U2 ever really wanted to save the whales, and I don’t believe that the Beastie Boys are ready to lay down for Tibet. Nobody says jack-shit about what really matters to them.” Do you really feel that way about rock stars who preach to the masses?

Iggy: Yeah. I feel this way about it: It would be easier for me to believe someone’s commitment to Greenpeace if that’s all they do. I mean, work for Greenpeace if you believe in Greenpeace. Personally, I haven’t done too many benefits, but boy, when you do, you see the backside of it. I hear people talking about the angles and different things they’re going to make off of it. Especially the managers.

Does that anger you?

Iggy: I’m not outraged by that, or really anything. It’s just not my personal taste. I just don’t see why they don’t use that same energy to write a good song that rocks. I’m just not a big believer. So, yeah, I’ll stand by the quote.

Are you saying Bono has an agenda to keep himself in the spotlight rather than just focus on writing good songs?

Iggy: I don’t want to go any further. I’ve already gone too far. [U2] is a good band. There’s a certain kind of reassuring white rock, and some people do well with that … and that’s fine. That’s all you’re going to get out of me.

Considering you’re still putting your body through all kinds of contortions onstage, how do you feel physically the day after a performance?

Iggy: Oh, fuck. It’s not just soreness. When I’m going for it, I absorb the energy of the people, so I can’t sleep. I’ll be really tired after one of those gigs, but I can’t sleep for about five hours. When I finally do try and sleep, I can’t sleep more than two hours. I’m like a cat on acid.

How have you managed to fight the temptation to use heroin again? Or have you?

Iggy: The other equation is, how do you manage to do that and also attempt anything with your life that involves edginess, aggression, or just comfort? It’s a lot easier to say, “Okay, I survived my heroin addiction, I’ll now be a tomato.” You can do that. But generally, once most people have been through their big addictions and you’ve passed the Christ stage —

Christ stage?

Iggy: [If you get] past 33 in one piece and you start to shed those addictions, you become tender. You will be tenderized physically, emotionally. Your nervous system, your consciousness, your stamina — everything is touchier. You’re not as sturdy a tower as you once were. You have to build that back up before you try any fancy shit. That’s basically what I did for a long time. Everybody has a different way of getting clean. I never did join AA or go cold turkey. I still like my cup of strong coffee in the morning, and I like my Red Bull if I’m going to go out and do something with a lot of people around. I also like a good red Bordeaux, but generally in private, with a close companion and with food. Those are minor addictions themselves. Everybody, all humans, will be addicted until the end of time. It’s part of humanity. I remember my friend Steve Jones of the Sex Pistols went to AA. [Laughs] We’re friends and I love him, so I can talk about him! He came up to me one time and said, “I quit everything. I don’t do anything! But I love dirty girls. I love dirty, filthy girls. I have to go out, find a sleazy one, and fuck her behind a curtain, or fuck her somewhere in a public place every night! But I’m in AA!” [Laughs] Okay, Steve! Everybody has a different way of going about these things.

When did you first realize you wanted to get off heroin?

Iggy: I first realized I wanted to get off it about 1980 or ‘81. So I wrote a book [I Need More], or told a book to somebody that later came out, because I knew that once I started kicking, I was going to become a fart. I was going to become reasonable and balanced and secretive, and do what serves me. So I spilled everything I did, and slowly came down gradually. I had my little relapses. Up until 1990, I used to smoke a little. It was a smaller and smaller joint every night. But then you start getting paranoid or you get hungover. And in the morning the phone rings, and it’s something really important and you can’t remember it. It kind of just goes like that. Now I’m ready to try some fancier shit! Like, go rock with the Stooges!

“I was really worried before this tour that I was doing too well. I didn‘t have any problems. I had no fucking motivation. Fuck! Life was too damn good. So I bought a really fucking expensive house, and now I have to pay for it! I‘m nervous! I‘m on edge again!”

Is it true that when you were in your mid-twenties, you were admitted to a mental hospital?

Iggy: Yeah. It was on the condition between myself and the treating physician that I wasn’t crazy. My point to him was that I needed to be somewhere that wasn’t a drug ward. I needed to be somewhere where I couldn’t get anything, and people didn’t know me. I needed to stop, basically. I was on a downhill train and I needed to stop.

How long did you spend in the mental hospital?

Iggy: About a month or two.

Did it help?

Iggy: Listen, as far as we got was twice a week, I was asked to talk about my father. So I would say, “Talk about my father. Now shut up!” To be honest, it was just a chance for me to stop the elephant for a little while. There wasn’t any Valium, aspirin, counseling, or any of that crap. I did a couple of rehabs after that. But this was just a straight ward where half the people were American housewives who were emotionally abused or ignored for too long. They just had little breakdowns. They just went off. A lot of the mentally ill in this country fall into that category. Then you have the guys like this one guy I knew, who thought his dad was in the FBI and the CIA and was after him. [Laughs] We also had a guy who took LSD and thought he could fly! He had broken limbs and stuff! It was kind of cool! That was that. It wasn’t a big deal.

If the reports are true, it seems as if Hollywood is going to make a movie about your life. Apparently, Elijah Wood has been given the green light to portray you.

Iggy: [Yells] What’s up with that? Are they really doing that thing?

Here’s a quote from Wood about winning the role: “I’m scared to death of doing it because I love [Iggy Pop] so much and respect the music so much. I don’t want to be the person responsible for screwing it up.” What advice would you give Wood?

Iggy: [Laughs] You’re going to get nowhere with that question! I read the script and … [Long pause] Gee whiz. Listen, I’ll tell you this, the script ain’t chopped liver. Judging objectively, it was a work of art. But subjectively, I don’t want to be involved in any way. I don’t even want to make any comment.

As someone who’s done his share of acting, why wouldn’t you want to be involved in the movie? At the very least, just to make sure they get the story right.

Iggy: I’ve done enough film work to understand what Hollywood is about. Apparently, the subject of this film is about me in some way. But the film is a journey, and there’s no telling where they’ll end up. The main character might become an Eskimo. You never know. It’s a creative process, and I just don’t have anything to do with it. More power to them. A producer and the writer sent me a very decent letter, and asked me to write back if I didn’t want them to do it. But I didn’t do that either because I don’t feel negative about it at all.

Are you a fan of Wood’s work as an actor?

Iggy: At first, I was kind of curious. Who is this Elijah Wood? I don’t really know about him. But somebody told me he played a hobbit in Lord of the Rings. And I saw him on TV the other day, and he seems like a very poised and talented actor.

The New York City bar and club CBGB is on the verge of closing. Is it worth saving?

Iggy: [Long pause] If it’s going to be turned into a tourist boutique, then the answer should be … You live in New York. Are there 20 bands in New York City that should be playing somewhere like that? That are filthy, flawed, and irritating enough? That still mean anything?

The bands may still be out there, but does anyone care? I think that’s the question.

Iggy: Then nature needs to take its course. I’ll tell you what, I’m not an expert in New York rock because I wasn’t born and bred there. Lou Reed knows a lot more about it than I do. Or David Johansen. Even Patti Smith. I came from Detroit, and New York, right from the beginning, was always great to me. I made it, if you consider me making it, because of that town.

But I think the worse New York is doing, both socially and economically, the better the music. [Laughs] Unfortunately, it seems like New York is doing awfully well these days! In general, big cities with cracks in the social fabric create great opportunities for white rock ‘n’ roll. So when CBGB was hot, that neighborhood was still very dirty and very dangerous, and the rent was nada, dude! I jammed at a club in that neighborhood once with the Bad Brains, and I was afraid! I shacked up with someone from the audience who lived across the street from the club, on the corner of Avenue A and St. Marks, and I said to myself, I got to get out of here! This is scary! Everything about New York was cool during the seventies. Even the big blackout in ‘77 was cool! There was space. People slouched when they walked, and they didn’t look like they had anywhere to go. Everybody wasn’t dressed for success. There were still peep shows in Times Square.

To me, that created art. That’s why CBGB was what it was. An apartment where Andy Warhol lived in Union Square was cheap … cheap and filthy!

“People are starving in general, especially when you get to … [Pauses] Hell, I‘ll say it — white music. [Laughs] Which just increasingly sucks!”

Would you prefer a cheap and filthy apartment, or a mansion?

Iggy: I have a limit to my tolerance of cheap and filthy. But objectively, I got to say that’s the only time city energy makes great music. The city has layers of knowledge, and it’s tongue and it’s cheek. It creates characters of interest that the suburbs never can in this country. But when the city becomes what it is now, the only people who can negotiate [are] going to be black crack dealers with portable equipment who don’t have the time to actually write the songs themselves. They can just sample it off of something that was done already. There’s no time now. There’s no space, and money is getting tighter. It’s very difficult to make an honest living. It’s very, very difficult. You hit a geyser on that question. But it’s an important question.

What band do you find interesting today?

Iggy: In New York City, I think the Strokes have become interesting just by virtue of their backgrounds and educations. These are well-educated boys who have learned certain things from their upbringing, and it affects their choices in a good way. That first record is very, very good.

Which was harder for you to deal with: turning 30, 40, or 50 … or is 60 going to be the worst for you?

Iggy: Thirty was a big fucking drama. Not so much because it was 30, but because of what was actually going on. At that point, I thought, Gee, my teeth are falling out! I didn’t look quite the same, and I started to realize that gravity was beginning to have its say and catch up with me. That was scary. Especially when you have no discernable future. I was like, “Wow! Hmmm?” Forty was more like grim determination. Like, All right, I’m in the thick of this disgusting shit work. By the time I hit 50, I felt like I had done enough shit work. I thought, I can’t stand it anymore! I’m going to do what I want! Second childhood, here I come. Gee, I hope this turns out all right. Here we go! It was unnerving. It was scary. But now I seem okay with it. I look back and think, Okay, I did the right thing at 50. That was right.

And 60?

Iggy: Sixty looks like a preparation for a segue. But it will probably happen five or six years after that. I suppose once you hit 65, you’re officially O-L-D! [Laughs] You know what I’m saying? Even at 61, 62, and 63, you can say, “Damn, he still looks pretty good! He’s still got a young chick!” So I’m not sure how all this will work out.

Is it better to burn out or fade away?

Iggy: Oh, I think it’s best to just sneak out with as much shit that you can carry!

As philosophies go, we’d have a hard time arguing with that last one, honestly. Mr. Iggy Pop still seems to be living it too, as they have an active website and continue to tour. Now if you were not a punk fan at its height, odds seem good that you will not suddenly become one now, but remember that this interview took place 20 years ago, so those fears of age 60 have now become intrepidation about 80. Sure be fun to talk to him about that, right?