I don’t wanna hear about what the rich are doing. I don’t wanna go to where the rich are going. They think they’re so clever, they think they’re so right. But the truth is only known by gutter-snipes.
We All Clash Sometimes
He’s 47 years young, but these days Clash founding member Joe Strummer (born John Graham Mellor) seems more than ever like the angry British punk rocker who slobbered out those driving lyrics to “Garbageland” in 1976. During the early eighties, Strummer was being praised as a rock-‘n’-roll god who was going to grab his growling legion of manic followers by their Mohawks and start a musical revolution the likes of which the world has never seen. But after demolishing disco and nuking new wave, Strummer walked away from the music industry at the height of his fame to try his hand at acting (he received rave reviews for his role as an Elvis fan in Mystery Train) and other un-Clash projects including parenting, marathon running, producing, composing and performing with his favorite Irish band, The Pogues.
Amen and alleluia! Clash disciples, rejoice! Strummer has decided it’s time to once again take to the stage and confront the world the only way he knows how … through his intense, thought-provoking lyrics and guitar-bashing chords.
It’s not always easy being a living legend. The urge to sit back and recall the glory days is incredibly tempting. As front man of The Clash — the most diverse, influential, and enduring band to some out of the British punk-rock explosion — Strummer cemented his place in rock history with such hits as “London Calling,” “White Man in Hammersmith Palais,” “Rock the Casbah” and “Should I Stay or Should I Go,” just to name a few. But our most revered punk has refused to let the past become his future.
Rejuvenated by his new band, the Mescaleros, and his critically acclaimed album, Rock Art and the X-Ray Style, Strummer is back on the road, teaching today’s kids what punk rock is really about.
“We’re sick of all the bullshit. Give us some truth. That’s the energy of punk rock But don’t get me wrong, it’s a hard way to live.”
But while things may look bright for Strummer these days, during the past 15 years his life has been anything but smooth. He fell off the face of the earth after the Clash broke up in the mid-eighties, despite the fact that at the time Rolling Stone magazine called it the greatest rock band in the world. After a few brief and unsuccessful attempts at touring with a makeshift band also called the Clash, Strummer engaged in an ugly legal battle with his record company. Soon the once cocky rabble-rouser lost his self-confidence, and throughout most of the nineties hid out with his family in the London countryside.
The year 2000 is looking much more promising. This past January the Clash catalog (save the band’s final studio effort, 1985’s Cut the Crap) was reissued by Legacy, including both the American and British versions of the band’s self-titled debut and a singles’ collection that was previously available only in England, while 1999 saw the release of two tribute albums, featuring such current stars as No Doubt, Rancid, Third Eye Blind, 311, and Moby. There could soon be a new and much younger legion of fans of the now-forty something quartet from London.
During the early eighties you were on top of the rock-‘n’-roll mountain. Then you vanished. Where did you go?
Well, I had a couple of problems. I had one major problem, which was, how do I get out of a contract? You see, we sold those Clash albums at a really low price, and we didn’t get royalties on them. Like Sandinista!, which was a triple album for the price of one. The record company doesn’t do that unless you kick in on your end. Are you with me?
I think so.
I knew I couldn’t afford to fight in court. I had the same contract as George Michael. So I watched him fight the record company. And the court found against him and it cost him $5 million. So I realized I had to think up another tragedy, which was basically to wait until my value was so low that the company wouldn’t blink an eye to throw me out of there.
So you’re telling me you had to destroy your career to get it back?
Yeah. But I am the one to blame. We signed a ten-album deal — you shouldn’t do that. Hey, even a three-year-old can tell you that’s not a good idea. So the fact that I had to take ten years out of my life in order to make good on that mistake, I consider a really good bargain.
These past 15 years must have been a very frustrating time for you.
Not really, because in just a few years the Clash put in 16 sides of long-playing vinyl. That’s a lot. After a spree like that, you just want to kick back and go, “Okay, let’s chill out for a minute and observe.”
No more preaching?
Exactly. It was time to shut the fuck up, to be more explicit. I needed a hiatus after that. Also, I got to see my kids grow up.
Were you aware of how frustrated and betrayed your fans felt when you left the music scene so suddenly?
Yeah, but let’s not get soft. It’s a cruel world out there. We did our thing and we split, and that’s kind of nice. Shakespeare wrote, “Brevity is the soul of wit.” There’s a lot to be said for brevity. The first time I saw the Ramones, they played a 30-minute set in London. And you could not want another minute.
Are you on good terms with your old bandmates?
Oh, yeah, every day we’re on the phone. But — I don’t know what it is — there’s definitely a defect there.
Here’s the million-dollar question: any chance for a Clash reunion?
Here’s the word on that: I always felt it’s gonna be either the old four original baseball cards or none. So I ain’t saying nothing, except that with the new mind-set I’ve finally got on, who knows what will happen.
You were always very vocal about your social and political agenda. Has that agenda changed?
Yeah. My new vibe is to destroy everything. I’m not joking, either.
Wasn’t that more or less always your position?
No, the Sex Pistols wanted to destroy everything then. I just hopped on their vibe. Hey, I’m slow getting there, but when I get there I get there.
So what has you wanting to destroy everything these days?
I read this piece of scientific nonsense. Basically, it stated that when we were hunters and gatherers back before recorded history, even in the most hostile environment it would only take three hours a day to collect whatever we would need to sustain us for the next 24 hours. Can you imagine us being these people where three hours a day we go out and get seeds or kill something, and then for the rest of the day we sit around making fantastical costumes and paint our bodies and do ludicrous things. Compare it to today. We’re all on the job ten hours a day. We clock in and clock out six days a week, and we’re miserable as fucks.
You don’t seem to be getting on too well with technological progress. I understand you don’t even like CDs.
[Yells] CDs suck! I mean, I have 50 CDs in the suitcase over there. So I guess I’m a hypocrite, but there’s something about analog that is so much better.
How do you feel about downloading MP3 files for songs instead of buying records?
[Yells] Down with the Internet and MP3! You must allow me to be a bit eccentric here. Music is just waves of tones. Now, the digital way of remembering these waves is using zero and one, right? There’s no way that a digital tape can have the delicacy of an analog tape. Of course nobody gives a shit about that. I’m just some idiot on the periphery. To be honest, I would love to have all my music put down on vinyl.
I think you’d better get used to MP3 and CDs, because I don’t think we ’re ever going back to vinyl.
Obviously, everyone says that. But have you listened to the cows?
The cows?
This is the clincher. A journalist in London told me this. He writes for this highfalutin hi-fi magazine. He told me about these guys in Texas who were playing music to their cows because it gave them a 20 percent higher yield on the milk. They were playing the music off cassette systems.
Imagine 100 million cows in barns, listening to Mozart.
Eight years ago they changed their systems to CD machines. Because they figured it would be more convenient. But as soon as they did that, the yield dropped down to the same level as cows who heard no music at all. It took them about 18 months to figure out that it wasn’t the feed or the weather or the water. They didn’t give the extra 20 percent yield because they were listening to digital music! That really rocked my world.
What does it all mean?
It means we’re fucked! Everything in Britain is switching to digital television. They’re not even going to broadcast analog television after 2006. We’re so done for over there.
Are you sure you’re not overreacting just a bit?
We’re fucked, I’m telling ya! I asked the guy who told me about the cows what he thought about my new album, and he said [Strummer whispers], “I’m waiting to hear it on vinyl. Then I will truly know what the music is like.” I went, “Jesus, he’s right!”
You’re 47 now. Does the idea of turning 50 scare you?
No way! I had to wait ten years to make it back into music. What I did is make a deal with the devil. I said, “I’m going to take ten years off, but when I come back I want to still look 37.” So somewhere along the line what I lost by signing that stupid contract with the record company, I gained by pleading with the gods of rock ’n’ roll. It’s only right.
You do look great. But don’t you also credit your youthful appearance to large amounts of marijuana?
The thing is this: Just now they’re discovering that Prozac can bring out suicidal and murderous tendencies that have been suppressed in people. People are going out of their minds. There are people jumping off the rails, if you know what I mean. Perhaps the government should check out marijuana as an alternative. You’re never going to jump off the rail after smoking a spliff. I reckon a spliff is probably a better Prozac than Prozac. Do you see what I mean? It should be recognized. It grows out of the earth. Meanwhile, everyone in government is drinking gin and tonics.
Is punk rock something you grow out of?
Never’ You see, punk rock is like the Mafia. Once you’re made, you’re made. Punk rock is not the clothes or the music. Punk rock is an attitude.
As the don’t-give-me-any-bullshit-cause-I-can-see-right-through-to-the-heart-of-the-situation attitude. Because I’m wise to the tricks of the world. We’re sick of all the bullshit. Give us some truth. That’s the energy of punk rock. But don’t get me wrong, it’s a hard way to live. I’m a difficult person to be with.
So the years haven’t softened you?
I’m more gnarly than in the past. Being ten years’ unfamous after being famous for five years is a great thing because it makes you hard as nails. I just don’t care anymore.
Which life did you prefer more, the famous or unfamous?
Being unfamous was nothing. could do 50 more years of being unfamous. Do you know what I’m saying? I don’t give a fuck. I could drive a fucking cab. I don’t give a fuck about my career, and that is a great thing.
If you don’t give a fuck about your career, why go on tour with the Mescaleros?
Hey, I got a second chance, so I’m taking it. It’s like Indian summer. I got the greatest group of musicians ever assembled. Ya gotta check us out. We’re smokin’. We’ve reconstructed the way music is played. We’re into telepathic jamming.
What do you hope will come from Rock Art and the X-Ray Style?
I just want to put out a record that’s worth having. I wanted to make a record that I would play. In fact, I told the MTV kids not to buy it. “Don’t waste your money on this, because this is a grown-ups’ record.” The record-company guys love when I say that.
Are you surprised that the Mescaleros have received such a warm reception from both fans and critics?
No, it’s because I chilled out for ten years. That’s a good little rest-up, ain’t it? If I would have kept going, I would be burned out now.
Yeah, but it wasn’t like you did nothing for ten years. Didn’t you work on a few movie soundtracks?
Yeah, I did the soundtrack to Sid and Nancy. Little bitty things like that. When they say I did the soundtrack to Sid and Nancy, what it really boils down to is one tune or two. [Strummer also did the scores for Permanent Record and Walker.]
What did you think of the film version of Sid Vicious’s life?
It was too long.
Are you surprised that the Sex Pistols’ lead singer, Johnny Rotten— a.k.a. Johnny Lydon— is still around?
I love that man . I think he’s a great poet. I wish him all the best things in the world.
He seems just as angry as you.
Yeah, so let him rock!
Rolling Stone said that the Clash was the greatest band that ever lived.
I’ll tell ya why they said that — we paid them 500 bucks each.
Many people agreed.
It’s a ludicrous thing. I mean, let all the bands be. There are many bands out there that are great. I’m into a variety of bands today.
Like who?
I’m into all the new punk-rock groups. I like the Offspring. They’re the bomb. And I’m into all the new African groups as well. I’m also into the Sudanese and the Colombian bands. I’m also listening to a lot of Gypsy shit that’s coming out over in Eastern Europe.
These days MTV hardly plays music, and what it does play usually sucks. What’s happened to MTV?
Well, I’ll tell ya what’s happened. The bean counters are in charge of everything from music to refrigerators. From the hinges on your window to the boots on the soles of your feet. It’s not the creative people running the show. I’m only speaking from a British point of view, but everything in Britain is ruled by committee-minded, focus-group idiots. It takes two years just to put together a TV show. There’s no way anything instant can happen anymore. And there’s no way of getting out of it, either.
You make it all sound so hopeless.
Back on the street, I say. Turn everything off in the pad and get back out on the street. As long as people are still here, rock ‘n’ roll can be great again. We can resurrect it. Everything has to go through bad patches before the glory days.
What did you think during the Gulf War when American pilots played the Clash song “Rock the Casbah” during air strikes?
[Laughs] I’m laughing because I got this fax saying, “Hey, I’m head of this corporation, and we make all the big video games in bars and stuff.” And [the guy] goes, “I got this great ‘Rock the Casbah’ idea. The machine will look like this, and jet pilots will fly over towns, and the music in the background will be ‘Rock the Casbah.’” I went, “No way! Are you crazy?”
No way! I mean, holy moly!
What do you think about the fall of communism?
I would say it was a bloody good idea. The thing is this: Any idea that has to be enforced by the secret police is a bad one. I mean, we’re all in a twit with Russia about the labor and the capital and the rich and the poor, but to have strength and power with the secret police and the K.G.B. is just too horrendous.
Do you think President Clinton weakened the world’s opinion of America with the Monica Lewinsky scandal?
You’re taking it all too seriously. Look, the Lewinsky thing made Bill Clinton’s star in Europe rise immeasurably.
Why do you think that is?
He came across looking human.
Everyone has a skeleton in their closet. Hey, in France if you don’t have a mistress, you’re weird. It’s not like that in Britain, but in France you keep a mistress set up in a flat. I’m talking about the Cabinet members and prime ministers. The whole thing is kind of normal there. Then you travel just a little bit, and the whole atmosphere is different. I mean, it just seemed to me that anyone who went up against Bill Clinton ended up having ten mistresses of his own holed up in a condo in Idaho.
The best line I ever heard about the whole Clinton scandal came from Larry Flynt of Hustler magazine when he said, “Was the cigar Cuban?” That was considered very funny to people in Europe. Was the cigar Cuban? That was beautiful!
Didn’t you run the Paris marathon?
Yup. I ran three of them.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but is it also true that you never trained for any of them?
You shouldn’t ask me about my training regimen, you know. I wouldn’t want people to copy it.
Don’t make me beat it out of you.
Okay, you want it, here it is: Drink ten pints of beer the night before the race. And don’t run a single step for at least four weeks before the race.
No running at all?
No, none at all. And don’t forget the ten pints of beer the night before. But make sure you put a warning in this article, “Do not try this at home.” I mean, it works for me and Hunter Thompson, but it might not work for others. I can only tell you what I do.
What Clash song best represents who you are?
“If Music Could Talk,” on Sandinista!
Great CD.
It’s not a CD — it’s a fucking album!
Sorry
Don’t be sorry. I’m guilty of saying CD myself every minute.
Finally, if you could stand up on-stage in front of the whole world and give the people one message, what would that message be?
I’d say, “Loosen up.” That’s all. Just loosen up.
