David Johansen may be one of the last surviving members of the original glam rockers, The New York Dolls, but that doesn’t mean he’s ready to call it quits.
All Dolled Up
During David Johansen’s heyday in the seventies, the lead singer of the New York Dolls would dress in drag and run with Iggy Pop and the Ramones. And though his band wasn’t commercially successful, the Dolls generated a cult following that has stuck with them — for 34 years. This summer the New York rockers released their first studio album since 1974’s Too Much Too Soon. With most of the original members dead and gone, the band continues playing with Johansen and guitarist Sylvain Sylvain. They’re the new New York Dolls, back with a soulful and rebellious new album, One Day It Will Please Us to Remember Even This. So why is now the time for a New York Dolls resurgence? As Johansen explains, “When we’re doing a concert and everybody is going crazy, I don’t know what they’re thinking. I just know that they’re grooving.”
If you watched the Grammys this year, you might walk away thinking rock ’n’ roll is dead. Would you agree?
I don’t think there really is any rock ’n’ roll. I think what they play now is what you would call “rock” or something. Nobody really swings. For me, it’s always been really important to play with drummers who can swing music. Most drummers are like machines these days. There’s a difference between rock and rock ’n’ roll.
Are you amazed that the Rolling Stones are still performing?
I think they’re just having fun. Why else would they do it? I think when you play music, they call it “playing” because you’re playing — you’re not working. Once you do that for a living, what else are you going to do? You have to keep playing. There are people who look at it like a career opportunity. And then there are other people who just have rock ’n’ roll in their DNA. It’s just something they’ve got to do.
Johnny Thunders wasn’t “very healthy at the time he died. You probably could have killed him with a feather.”
The New York Dolls are credited with influencing legendary groups, including the Sex Pistols, Guns N’ Roses, Aerosmith, and KISS. What influence do you think you had?
I don’t know. They say the Dolls influenced the punk bands and the hair bands, which are the two most diametrically opposed camps in the rock world. I think that’s pretty funny. They say we influenced KISS and the Sex Pistols. I would imagine those two bands are devout enemies. It’s amusing to me.
Do you think KISS would agree that you influenced them?
I’ve read in their interviews that they feel we influenced them, but I really don’t think about it. When we were kids we used to play at this joint in Queens [and] KISS used to open for us. At the time they were called Phoenix. They were like a Grateful Dead kind of band — the Queens version! A gum-chewing Grateful Dead. But they saw how much fun we were having, so they wanted to get in on it.
Who influenced your music style?
We were influenced by Little Richard and stuff like that. That’s rock ’n’ roll.
What made you wake up one morning and put on women’s clothes?
We looked like [that] when we met. That’s how we found each other. We didn’t meet and then say, “Okay, let’s get dressed up.” It starts when you’re a little kid. I don’t even like to call it fashion. It’s just about dressing up.
Can attitude take you further than talent?
If you’re in a band and you want to make it, you’re probably not going to do anything worthwhile. You’re probably going to follow the herd and only do what’s considered acceptable. It’s better if you do something because you dig it. If you’re having fun, you’re more likely to invent something new.
Your heart is obviously in your music, but what inspired you to do a new album after so many years?
I really love music. It’s been the defining characteristic of my existence. Sylvain and I got together one night and played, and we had so much fun we said, “Let’s keep doing this!”
Original fans of the band might argue that without Johnny Thunders, there can be no New York Dolls.
Absolutely! [Laughs] I’m just kidding! I don’t care. The band we put together now is such a great band. I don’t really compare this band with a band that has a lot of dead people. It’s like, what if they saved Hitler’s brain? Great concept, but what do you do with it? So we’re a new band in a way.
Then why call yourselves the New York Dolls?
We’re a new version. People spend a lot of time comparing, and it’s probably inevitable. But it’s not something I’ve spent a lot of energy thinking about. We just get together and play music and it’s good. That’s all that matters to me. Even when we’re doing a concert and everybody is going crazy, I don’t know what they’re thinking. I just know that they’re grooving.
Besides yourself and Sylvain Sylvain, all the other New York Dolls are dead. What has it been like watching member after member check out?
Well, [with] some of them I was surprised they lasted so long, and [with] others I was taken aback.
Of all of your bandmates who died, which one troubled you the most?
Arthur Kane [in 2004]. That was shocking to me. We had just gotten back together [a couple of weeks earlier for a reunion concert], and Arthur had leukemia but he didn’t know it. He had wanted so much to get back together with the band that I think it was keeping his disease from advancing. But once he accomplished what he set out to do, he relaxed a little bit and the disease took its opportunity. I mean, he had massive leukemia and he didn’t even know it. [Editor’s note: He died hours after being diagnosed.] That was kind of shocking. I was looking forward to spending time with him because he was such a great guy and so fucking funny. I kind of felt gypped.
Joey Ramone once told me he strongly believed Johnny Thunders didn’t die of a drug overdose. He believed he was murdered. What do you think?
I have not one thought on that. Not a one.
Nothing you’re willing to share? Or literally no thought?
I really don’t know how he died. He probably just took too much dope. I don’t think he was very healthy at the time he died. You probably could have killed him with a feather. Do you know what I’m saying?
Do the new Dolls still sound like the original Dolls?
I think we sound more like Styx!
On acid?
Exactly!
I think it’s safe to say you’re not the same guy who wrote “Jet Boy” and “Trash.” Do you think you’re a better songwriter now than you were at 20?
Oh yeah, I think so.
When writing lyrics, what inspires you these days?
Pagan love-dancers.
Something all of us can relate to.
Yeah! Seriously, I just take the way I feel at the moment and try to transcribe it so it’s understandable to people who are going to dance.
The first three Dolls albums got rave reviews, yet they never sold commercially. Why?
Well, they have sold by now. They’ve sold a couple of million copies by now.
But it’s been 30 years! Why do you think they didn’t sell during a time when I’m sure you could have used the cash?
Because we were considered heretics when we came out. When we came out there were bands like Led Zeppelin and blah, blah, blah. I can’t remember all of them. They thought they were all that with the limousines, etc. But we were just kids on the street. We wanted to make music, but we didn’t want to be like that. We did it our own way. At the time it was considered heresy.
After 30 years, how much of the money from your record sales have you seen?
Oh, Christ! We made all the mistakes you can make. I know there’s some money someplace! It’s probably in Switzerland!
Correct me if I’m wrong, but my guess is, you don’t care if anyone buys your new album.
I think that’s right. If you’re going to do something that’s creative, do your best work and don’t worry about results. Go with your first idea — that’s usually your best idea. It’s all about doing your best work and having as much fun as you can. If it becomes successful, good. But who knows — that could create a whole new set of problems.
Is hip-hop the new punk rock?
I don’t think it’s punk rock. I think it’s pop. I don’t think it’s like punk rock because it’s too popular.
But like punk rock, hip-hop went from the streets to middle-class America.
Yeah, they seem to have very authentic water pistols. Hey, it’s all well and good, but I just like rock ’n’ roll.
A Hollywood studio is making a film on the life and times of Iggy Pop. Do you have any interest in seeing it?
I want to play him!
Do you think you could pull it off?
Oh, yeah!
Should the New York Dolls be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
I hope not. If we got asked to do that, Sylvain would want to do it and I wouldn’t. We would end up having a big fight about it. So I would like to avoid that.
Remember this “comeback” album happened twenty years ago now, but we always admire ambition regardless of the age of those being ambitious. It appears the band broke up about five years after this interview, so at least something worked for awhile. It would be easy to find much more in-depth information on the New York Dolls just using your favorite search engine (or AI, obviously), but if you want a hint about what helped us the most, well, now you have it. For the record (as it were) some of us still miss Buster Poindexter. And who doesn’t love Pagan love-dancers?
Header photograph modified from the excellent work of John Scarpati, btw. Impressive eye.
