The Magic Man

After the fanfare, the reality. A fated superhero’s candid views on AIDS, sex, his family, his profession, and why he’s done what he’s done.

Magic Johnson

Earvin “Magic” Johnson’s second return to professional basketball after discovering his H. I. V. positive condition in 1991 ended this past spring when, once again, he announced his retirement. His last N.B.A. games came during the playoffs, in which his Los Angeles Lakers were eliminated in the first round. Barry M. Bloom, a writer with the San Diego Union-Tribune, sat down with Johnson in between practice sessions on the Los Angeles campus of Loyola Marymount University a few days before Magic made it official that he was quitting for good. Stretched out on a bench in an empty locker room, his long legs parallel to the floor, Johnson had a concerned look on his face. He had shown signs of brilliance during his return to the National Basketball Association, that familiar No. 32 in Laker gold-and-purple flashing here and there up and down the court. But the heralded return to action, which began with much fanfare this past January, had been not all that easy. “It’s funny. I’m dealing with things I never had to deal with before in my career,” Johnson said with a deep sigh. On that day he thought he would “probably play one more year, and that’s it.” Here in this same gym those great Laker teams of the 1980s, those championship teams of Johnson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Michael Cooper, and a changing cast of talented dozens, butted heads in practices Johnson today wistfully calls “wars.” Here, too, less than a decade ago, Paul Westhead, a coach Johnson bitterly battled early in his professional career, sent a collegiate star named Hank Gathers onto the court in a key tournament game, fully knowing that the youngster had stopped taking drugs prescribed to control an irregular heartbeat. Late in the game, Gathers suffered a heart attack and died. The symbolism is rich with irony. In what is now known as “Hank’s House,” Johnson had been trying to re-create the past. But, like Gathers, that Lakers era is long gone. And Johnson was in a far different state of mind: waging an intense battle against HIV and time.

Unlike last season’s return of Michael Jordan, Johnson’s comeback was not about healing the wounds of a father’s death or returning to a game with which he had grown disenchanted. Unlike Mike Tyson’s return to boxing, Johnson’s comeback was not about overcoming years confined to a cell block. Johnson could closely relate to Mario Lemieux, who returned this season to dominate the National Hockey League once more after subduing lymphatic cancer. But Lemieux is only 30, and had been off the ice for not much more than a year.

Johnson was nearly 37, and had been away from the N.B.A. for four-and-a-half years when his wife, Cookie, finally tired of her husband’s indecision and urged him to forget about the controversy that had ended his first comeback attempt in 1992, only months after a successful tour with the gold-medal-winning Dream Team at the Barcelona Summer Olympics. “Look, I’m tired of this,” she said. “You’re going back. Get on out of here. You know you want to get back. So go on back and quit messin’ around.”

Johnson, though, was not your typical superstar athlete desperately trying to reclaim his lost youth. He returned as the world’s most visible HIV patient, a man who has confounded his own doctors since his original 1991 retirement.

“What they have found out by me coming out,” he says, “is that HIV reacts differently in everybody. That’s what all the studies are showing.”

But with his return the detractors also returned in force. Johnson had become so private about living, coping, and dealing with the infection, some people interpreted that silence as denial. Others wondered if he had forsaken the responsibility he had earlier taken on to educate the world about HIV and AIDS prevention. Still others held that Johnson’s admissions about his promiscuous lifestyle hardly qualified him to be a role model in this day when heroes fall off pedestals with stunning regularity.

Johnson is anything but in denial. “When I tell you I live [HIV], I live it,” he says. “Every morning I wake up, look in the mirror, and I know. The reminders are all there.” In this exclusive interview with Bloom, Johnson answers his critics.

You realize there’s a segment of the populace that believes the sexual exploits you revealed in your autobiography put you in a place where you shouldn’t be considered a role model?

Johnson: Oh, yeah. But there’s always going to be those people. The public, the young people, they either make you a role model or not. I think that I’ve tried to be honest, because honesty is the only thing young people understand. If I don’t come out and reveal those things, then those young people don’t understand how I got HIV. They wouldn’t understand the lifestyle I was living. You have to understand that before you can understand HIV. If I don’t reveal it, then young people don’t get educated and it won’t raise the awareness level. And more and more young people are going to have HIV. You see the numbers growing every day. It’s unbelievable, the number of heterosexuals who are infected young. It’s staggering.

Obviously, then, the message isn’t getting out.

Johnson: The message is getting out, but it needs to keep growing. You fight so much, we fight so much here in America. They don’t want to educate people in schools. If you don’t do it in school, then you have to do it at home.

Despite the openness and the awareness level, aren’t these still subjects people have trouble dealing with and talking about?

Johnson: Yeah, people find it difficult. It’s the same people who are saying their sons and daughters are not having sex even while they are.

How do you deal with your kids? Your oldest, André, is already a teenager.

Johnson: Well, I talk to them. I explain it openly. That’s the only way. I told my son that before you have sex you should talk to me, because he shouldn’t be having it. But if he’s going to do it, talk to me. I explain HIV. I explain more than that. The other things out there. Getting a girl pregnant. The whole thing. That’s why I tell him to refrain from having sex. You can only do the best job you can by just talking. Hopefully they will look at you as their friend as well as their parent. Because if you’re not their friend, they’re not going to come talk to you. Not at all. They’re going to get it from the street or somebody or whoever has an influence.

Did you have people do this for you, or was it just a different time? You were very close with your family.

Johnson: My dad is still my best friend. I talked to him. I had other friends. But I remember going to him. He told me about drugs and things. I remember I got offered to smoke some weed. But I always remembered what my dad said. And I turned it down. The first person I told was my dad when I got home. I was proud. I was happy. That’s what I want with my sons and my daughter. I want to try to be their dad and also their friend. And if it happens they can come talk to me about it.

It’s a tough situation and a tough subject. When it was just quote, unquote, a gay disease, everybody thought things were cool. But now heterosexuals are making up 75 percent of all the cases coming down. Probably a bigger number than that—80, 85 percent. Now it’s hitting everybody’s home. Tommy Morrison now [the boxer who is also H. I. V. positive]. It can hit you. It’s not black or white. It’s everybody. And it’s people who thought it could never happen to them.

At one time you were one of those people, weren’t you?

Johnson: Exactly. That’s what I’m saying. That’s why people can get mad at me or they can say what they want. See, I know young people. I speak to them. I’m with them all the time. I teach them all the time in all these camps that I volunteer to go to. If [tut-tutting adults] ever came to one of my sessions, they would understand how smart these young people are. Because they ask some of the toughest questions. When you ask, “Are you guys having sex?” you see the hands. And you’re talking about 15- to 18-year-olds. It’s a lot of hands. And teenagers have more sex today than they’ve ever had.

So people blame me, but I don’t promote sex. I don’t tell people to have it. What I try to do is discourage them from having it. But you’ve got to be open. I can’t discourage them from having sex if I don’t tell them my own story. But then I’m a bad guy if I do. So now you just have to deal with it the way you want to deal with it. I’m not going to let these people tell me how to talk to the kids or what I should say. If they want to ban the book that’s up to them. That’s not going to hurt me.

It’s a tough position for you to be in, isn’t it?

Johnson: It was, but now I just don’t fight it anymore. You can’t make everybody happy. Even if I was way to the right, you’re not going to make everybody happy. If I’m way to the right, the people on the left are going to be upset. So I’m dealing with it. It was tough, but it’s not anymore.

Tell us about when it was tough.

Johnson: The first couple of years I was wavering back and forth, and I made some mistakes along the way. By saying, if you’re going to have sex use a condom. Now I’m teaching every youngster, including my own kids, not to have it. But I’m a realist too. They’re having it, and in a big way. So if you’re going to do it you’re going to have to have safe sex. There’s no way to say, just don’t have sex, because it’s happening. You see all these teenage girls pregnant. More babies. Babies having babies. You see the cases of HIV are all young now. A lot of kids. So it’s happening. We can’t deny that.

You don’t see much of that in the media. You seem to know more about it because of the work you do through the Magic Johnson Foundation.

Johnson: You know, a lot of times you don’t want to hear it. You don’t want to print it. You don’t want to say it. You hear about most of it in Third World countries. But it’s moving fast here. It’s growing in cycles. There’s somebody infected with HIV every two or three minutes. So it’s happening around the world. It’s unbelievable. It’s growing fast right here in Los Angeles. That’s why the mayor and different people are trying to get programs up.

You talked to Tommy Morrison just after he announced he was H. I. V. Iinfected. Can you tell us about that?

Johnson: I told him, basically, “Look, right now you need people who understand what you’re going through, and I do. I know you think the world is coming to an end. I know you have a lot of why me? thoughts and that whole thing. But don’t get into that. Because this already happened. What you should be doing is surrounding yourself with your family right now to really let this settle in. You now have to use the same competitive spirit and the same drive to fight the HIV that you had in boxing. You have to learn what you can do and what you can’t do. You’ve got to continue to work out. Train. The most important thing is to continue to have a good attitude. You have to be Tommy Morrison.” I asked him to join in educating young people because, I said, “I need you.” And he said yes to that. We’re going to do some things together.

Tell us about your relationship with Elizabeth Glaser. [A year and a half after she electrified the 1992 Democratic National Convention, Elizabeth Glaser—the wife of actor Paul Michael Glaser—died of AIDS resulting from a transfusion in the last stages of pregnancy. Their daughter, Ariel, had died before her, at seven, of the same AIDS contracted as a fetus. Their son, Jake, age 11, is infected but has not developed symptoms of AIDS.]

Johnson: She called my agent, Lon Rosen, right after my announcement. We met her in the next day or two. Oh, man, she was unbelievable. She was quite a woman.

The reason everything is happening is because of her. All this stuff. Pediatric AIDS. The research. She was in the forefront of all of it. I’m just trying to carry on what she had going on. Everybody else is trying to carry on too. She didn’t take no stuff. She was tough. Strong. She was fighting for her own son. All she wanted, she kept telling me, was for him to live. Have a life. But she was wonderful. She also helped Cookie a lot. That was a key for her.

Knowing that one’s child also has the disease must tear a person up.

Johnson: More than it does knowing you have it yourself. That’s what [Glaser] was saying. She cried not for herself, but for her child.

It must have been a major catharsis for you when all the tests came back negative on your family. Cookie subsequently gave birth to Earvin III, and he’s a healthy three-year-old now.

Johnson: I don’t think anybody knows how much of a relief it was. I couldn’t sleep. I just waited for that moment. The only time I was scared, the only time I’ve ever been shaken, was in those days. To see [my wife’s] face. So frightened. Scared. Confused. I’d never seen Cookie like that. Then, when it came back … I could breathe again, basically. That’s when I knew everything was going to be all right. I think if she would have ever left, I don’t know if I’d be sitting here today. I really don’t.

You took a long time to marry her, but evidently it was the right move.

Johnson: Sometimes you need signs. You wonder why God put the two together. Boy, do I understand why. And then you understand why we both love each other so much. It’s unbelievable. I always knew I loved her so much. Just like she loved me. She stuck right there with me for all those years. It’s truly been a blessing, us being married. Because we’re having so much fun. It’s great now to have her sitting there. Some nights she would wait for me after a game. Until after ten o’clock. But I knew it wouldn’t affect her. She just loves doing that. It’s nice. And she’d comfort me if I was upset after a tough loss.

Do you look back on how you handled yourself sexually with any regret?

Johnson: I don’t regret anything. Life is like this. I’m dealing with the cards I have been dealt. I don’t blame anybody. I’ve never said, “Why me?” God has blessed me in so many different ways. It’s a blessing just to be back out there on the court. God had a plan. He used me to make people aware of HIV and AIDS. It was a plan that works. I don’t get into regretting and all that, because what’s that going to do? Nothing. I’m not going to get into why me?, because what’s that going to do? Bring me down. I’m not a down person. I meet it head-on. That’s the only way I know how to do things. It was my fault. I did it. And then, hey, you move on. How can I live? How can I make things better for other people? How can I tell them about this? You tell them you made a mistake. I’m the one to blame for that.

When you returned to the N.B.A. did you see a change in lifestyle with all the awareness about HIV?

Johnson: I haven’t been [to] a lot of places, but I definitely feel it has changed. If it hasn’t, then the players are stupid.

As you’ve gone along this path, what do you think you’ve done for people who not only have HIV but have other debilitating, life-threatening diseases?

Johnson: I think I’ve given them hope and encouragement. They have something to latch on to. Somebody. We all look for something to grab hold of, whether it’s our kids, whether it’s some politician, or player, or whatever. Maybe some friend, somebody you see life through. “If I can’t do it at least I can live it through them.” Hopefully, that’s what I’m doing for all those people, whether they have HIV or any number of deadly diseases. And also I try to give them a sense that their life is not over. That they can still enjoy themselves.

What is the Magic Johnson Foundation doing now?

Johnson: We’ve given out about $6 million. What we do is educate about HIV and AIDS. But mainly we supply other HIV and AIDS organizations that may not have the name or can’t raise the money to keep going. Like the other day we found out there was a hospice in L.A. that needed a van. We’re getting ready to buy that van for them, so they can take HIV and AIDS patients back and forth and around. We supply money all over this country. New York, Kansas City. You submit what you need, how much money you need, and then the board votes on who should get the money. We get thousands of applications. The organization is doing a wonderful job.

Some people still believe that you have given up the fight against AIDS.

Johnson: They don’t understand. I do so much for the fight against HIV and AIDS all over the world. Our basketball tour. Every time we toured around the world we gave our proceeds to an HIV or AIDS organization, wherever we played in every country. Right now I’ve had to stand up for military people with the disease, who the government is trying to kick out. There are over a thousand soldiers and their families that will be affected by this bill they’re trying to pass.

“It’s not black or white. It’s everybody. And it’s people who thought it could never happen to them.”

What is the bill going to do when—and if—it’s passed?

Johnson: The bill means they lose their jobs, their medical, and all that if they test positive for HIV or AIDS. They were trying to take away that. So I had to go public for them, because nobody is going to listen to them. Which is unfortunate. So I’ve got to fight the battle for them. I wrote Newt Gingrich and a number of other politicians letters expressing my outrage. [H. I. V. positive service personnel] don’t have to go into battle, but they can still keep their jobs. I understand that. And they understand that. But they don’t want to be kicked out of the military because it’s their job, their income, and how they’re keeping their families going. It’s also how they’re buying their medicine. So I expressed that for them.

What else are you doing?

Johnson: I speak so many different places. Everywhere. Before I came back I was on a four-city tour of New York, Dallas, Chicago, and Los Angeles. I was on my way to Las Vegas, until I came back with the Lakers. We had to cancel that. We had an open forum with high-school kids in each place. It’s funny: Because I don’t want publicity, nobody knows what I’m doing. If people don’t hear about it, then [they think] I’m not doing much. But we have one of the most successful foundations. I am at the forefront of the battle. I am at the forefront of trying to make sure that doctors and scientists are still doing their thing, that the new medicines are still coming out. And I will continue to do that. What they see is a man that has a lot going on. Some people think this is the only thing you should be doing. But I’m a man who never has [just] one thing going on.

You quit President Bush’s AIDS Council when there was no movement forward. Certainly the Clinton administration has done a lot more than the Bush administration, hasn’t it?

Johnson: Without a doubt. A million times more.

How political do you try to be, or do you try to stay away from it?

Johnson: I’m a person who is definitely going to look you in the eye and say, Okay, if you tell me you’re going to do this, then I’m going to hold you accountable for that. I’ve gotten more political now than I’ve ever been.

How do you find time for all these business activities on top of everything else?

Johnson: I find time. Like after practice I might have had a meeting. A deal we’d been working on. I find time to do everything. I find time for my family. Like last night. I’m throwing my son up and down and all over the place. We’re wrestling. Every morning is a good time for my daughter and myself. She wakes up early, and so do I. You know how to balance everything. My family suffers [whenever] I’m back playing basketball. [My plan was to] probably play one more year and that’s it. [After that I’d] be the businessman I’ve always wanted to be.

Why did you feel that you had to come back?

Johnson: No. 1, I still could play. No. 2, I wanted my son to see me play. It was kind of like a tie between the two. I really felt that was important for my younger son. My older son had already seen me play. I never wanted everybody to tell them that Daddy used to play and how Daddy played. I wanted E.J. to see it for himself. And he loved it. He was waving at me every minute. Then there’s the love for the game. And just to see if I could still do it. So, right there.

What did the doctors tell you this time that was different from when you left the last time?

Johnson: No restrictions. Do it all. Just have a good time. See you later. Before, it was: your career. Basketball playing all the time. What they have found out by me coming out is that HIV reacts differently in everybody. That’s what all the studies are showing. A lot of things came out because of me. That’s what people should be pointing to. Instead of all this other stuff. It has helped the HIV and AIDS community a lot.

Why didn’t you think the time was right when you tried to come back for the first time two years ago?

Johnson: People were uneducated still. Everybody. Players were scared. I think that Karl Malone said what everybody wanted to say when he said I shouldn’t come back. But nobody else wanted to step up to the plate.

So you stepped out of the N.B.A. again [the second time] because you didn’t want to battle with players and league officials. Isn’t that the reason you changed your mind about playing again this summer [in Atlanta] on the Olympic Dream Team?

Johnson: I didn’t want to start anything. My comeback had been smooth and great. I wanted to keep it like that. Somebody will say it’s unfair because of something. Maybe the other guys deserved it because they played the whole season. And I didn’t want to get into that. Everything [was going] great, the fans, the media, the players. I didn’t want to feel like somebody didn’t get selected because of me. I wanted to be on it [the Olympic team], but I didn’t want to start any controversy. So let’s just move on. I’m all right.

Before making your decision to play again, did you have much contact with Michael Jordan about his comeback experience?

Johnson: We had talked more about it in the summer. And then I saw him. He told me how it was tough for him in the beginning. He wanted to be Michael right away. I understood that from coming back myself. You want to be yourself. Our roles are a little different though. But, yeah, I did talk to him, because Michael is very intelligent. He’s going to tell me the real deal. That’s what I like about him. That’s what I loved about Larry Bird.

Don’t you feel like this was two separate playing careers, like you started all over again?

Johnson: With a whole new team, with a whole new style. The N.B.A. has changed. There’s a lot of isolation going on. Before, if you ran a pick-and-roll play, there was some other action going on on the other side of the court. Now, isolation. You stand, you watch. There are two players involved or maybe three. Maybe because the [three-point] line moved in. So there’s a lot of standing and watching.

“I think that Karl Malone said what everybody wanted to say. … But nobody else would step up to the plate.”

Do you think veterans like Malone are right when they talk about the uncommitted play of young players in the league?

Johnson: I think he hit it right on the head because I already said that we should have had this rookie salary cap a long time ago. What happened was, these guys came in and made all kinds of money. That stopped them from working in the summer, and it created the attitude they have. If you give a guy an eight-, nine-year deal guaranteed, he’s going to have an attitude. You can’t cut him. You can’t really discipline him. You’ve got to play him, he’s making so much money. He can go, “Forget you. I don’t care what you say.” And then once one does it, the other guys join in. They feel you’ve given one guy some special treatment. And everybody wants to be treated the same.

Those were extraordinary Lakers teams that won five championships in the 1980s. You understand that now, don’t you?

Johnson: Don’t I. Because of the personalities, and all we cared about was winning. Not about who was going to get the glory. We understood. We worked so well together. We played with a passion. We played with a purpose. A reason. Not like today. We knew each other so well. We preached family and we were. You had a baby, we had a baby; you and your wife were fighting, we were fighting. We would rally behind you. We would go home and tell our wives to go over and get [teammates and wives with problems] together. You know what I’m saying? We cared about one another. That’s why now we’re all still so tight. I mean, Kurt Rambis. I have my camp in Hawaii. He’s there. When I traveled with my all-star team, all those guys were the first guys I called. Kareem, the whole thing. We all still look out for one another.

Yet even then, you guys had stopped listening to Pat Riley, hadn’t you? Isn’t that why he resigned as coach [of the Lakers]? Riley also burned out in New York, and probably will eventually do the same thing in Miami.

Johnson: Yeah, but we never stopped working hard. Anytime you’ve got a driver and a pusher, he’s only going to be there so long, because he drives and pushes you every day. At some point you’re going to break down. You burn out. That’s what happened. Pat is a driver and a pusher. He wants the maximum out of you. He knows where he can push you. He knows where he can drive you. New York found out, though, when he was gone, that they wanted him back. We found out the same thing. We wanted him back. You know, that’s all we talked about. Even today. [Riley] always said, “This is special. Savor it.” He used to always tell us that. We didn’t know what he was talking about. Until I retired and everybody was gone. He’s gone. Now you understand what he was saying.

How serious are you about playing for Riley again [with the Miami Heat]?

Johnson: Well, I’m going to take a look at things. I’m 36, I’m going to be 37. My objective is trying to win [a championship] one more time. So that’s what I’ve got to look at. If you leave L.A. of course the next person you want to play for is Pat Riley. Without a doubt.

Obviously, the main thing is staying healthy. Has there been any pattern established that the more exercise you get, the more of a chance you have of staying healthy?

Johnson: I think it helps, with not only your body but your attitude. When the doctor first told me I had it, I asked him, “How can I beat it?” He said, “No stress, and you’ve got to have a good attitude.” I said, “That’s it?” He said, “Well, that’s the two most important first steps.” I said, “Well, I guess I’m going to live forever then.” Because I don’t have stress in my life. I’ve never been a stressful person. I deal with things differently than most people. I just deal with it and it’s over. I move on.

Coming back to try to win an N.B.A. championship is not stressful, then?

Johnson: It’s good stress, if you have any. You can handle that. You can deal with that. That’s what you’ve been dealing with your entire life. Of course, if you want to win so bad, it can drive you crazy. But if you keep it in perspective, it’s just a short period of stress. Then it’s over. It’s probably an exhilaration more than a stress. That might be the better word for it. Especially when you have the ball in your hand the last minute of the game.

Is there anything else like that?

Johnson: Nothing. Ooo, what a rush and a high. That’s why I came back. Without a doubt. It’s not the same in a pickup game. You can get that feeling, but it’s not close to that, no. Nothing. You can’t compare that rush to anything. It’s being out there knowing that it’s going to come down to you. Most guys can’t handle it. They run away from that ball. I love that. I can deal with that situation. Whether you make it or miss it.

Role models in general tend to be very much defined by how one defines admirable skills or behavior. For some of us, having a role model who can throw a football 70 yards and drop it into a basket on the field seems a little bit crazy. Role models — regardless of what position they hold in society — should ideally represent a standard we could all at least attempt to reach. In that way, regardless of a horn-dog youth, Magic Johnson exemplifies the humanity that might benefit most of us. Should you care about this return to professional basketball, you may enjoy a detailed recap at this point. Should you care about the more human things the Magic Johnson story may tell us, you might think about using condoms.